The good old days were turbulant, exciting, difficult and creative days. Margaret , who was one of my first interviews (August 2006) was a founder of P.A.C. and the founding director of the Confidence Clinic. Marge was the first assistant directorof the Confidence Clinic. Mary attended the thirteenth session of the Confidence Clinic and went on to become an advocate, a Clinic aide and then director of the Clinic. Both Mary and Margaret later did a stint as director of UCAN.
A theme that shows up in all three interviews is a consistent tension between pressures to "professionalize" the program and the basic P.A.C. principle of mutuality - of people working "with" each other to support each other, rather than the previous degrading system of handouts, of (superior) people doing things "to" or "for" other (implicitly lesser) people.
Another theme is the transformative power of the Confidence Clinic. Those of you who know Margaret will be surprised to learn that she was once shy and (in her words) "backward". Those who know Mary Murhpy will be equally surprised to learn that she once hid out in her house and talked to no one. (Marge surprises no one - Dave Sonnie was her case worker and according to him she started out from the very beginning telling him what was what in no uncertain terms.)
These women in their individual ways exemplify what Clinic is all about. They also played a major role in making Clinic what it is today.
ME: Well, I have to start from the very beginning. It’s a long story, because clinic was just one part. Um, I’m not real sure the year, I can’t remember if it was 67-68 or 68–69. But, it was the first year the college was on the campus [where] it is now. Up until that point they had been in the old church building behind where Newberry’s was, behind where the Elk’s is. It’s now the Redeemer’s Church.
That’s where the college started. And the first year they moved out to the college campus and I think it was the 68-69 school year. Uh, it’s also the year that the federal government started a training program for welfare recipients, called the Title V program, and I was a welfare recipient. I was a welfare mom and I had three little kids and uh I guess I was, what, maybe 28 at the time. I can’t remember exactly, it’s been a long time ago. Anyhow, I signed up for, uh… Actually I was pushed into it, I didn’t sign up for anything, I was “Miss Shy”, let me tell you. This was the mom who didn’t leave the house without her own mother.
[laughter]
ME: I was really, really backward.
AW: Interesting…
ME: Yeah, because I had been sheltered. I was married when I was fifteen, you know, and, actually I was married when I was fourteen, so about 6 months before my 15th birthday and I had been home having babies all this time. I didn’t go out and work, I didn’t go out in the world. I didn’t do anything. So it was real hard for me, but I wasn’t the only one. There was a group of 20 of us, around 20, it might have been 21, 22, women in the same situation, who were forced on the Title V program by their caseworkers and sent to college, the first year it opened on the campus. And we all got to know each other. There were several of us who had very aggressive caseworkers, who wanted us to start getting involved in things, wanted us, wanted us to, uh, begin to, uh, advocate for ourselves, for the things we needed. So we, they took us to Eugene to what was then called the ADC, uh, organization, Aid to Dependent Children Agency, uh, Organization. It was a group of welfare moms who started in Eugene.
AW: Part of the welfare rights thing?
ME: Uh-huh, part of the welfare rights group.
AW: What were the names of your case, those caseworkers, do you remember?
ME: Uh, mine was Diane Herbert. Oh yes, they were very involved in this whole system. And the other one was Dave Sonnie, David Sonnie, and there was, uh, a fellow that I didn’t get to know very well, he was there through, when we first began, uh, what was then Parents Action Council, which is now UCAN. Uh, his name was, um, Dick, I can’t remember his last name, he was real involved, but he left and became a FBI agent.
AW: [laughs]
ME: Anyhow, these three caseworkers were real instrumental in getting a group of us together. There was about, um, must have been six or seven of us that were interested, you know, they got us interested because they, they became our friends. And then they did things with us. We became social. They socialized with us, um.
AW: So much for professional, professionalism and distance and all that stuff.
ME: Yeah, well, that’s what we needed, you know, that’s what we needed.
AW: Exactly.
ME: And we decided, yeah, we were gonna go. We went to Eugene, and we learned how to do it, you know, and we decided we were going to start our own group in Douglas County. And our, uh, what was to be, our uh president of our organization, lived in the house that we first started the Confidence Clinic in, on Rast Court.
AW: What was her name?
ME: Her name was Patsy Shadley. And I don’t know what her name is now, she’s married, but she drove school bus for years, so I imagine you could track her down if you wanted to.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And I lived with my girlfriend and we lived in a house, uh, where the um, um, disabilities place is now on Winchester Street.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: There was a big old house there that used to be a flower shop in front. It was a welfare rental and we lived there. And that’s where we had our meetings to begin with. But the first one we had, when we first started this organization, William May, who was the head of the welfare in this county, in our county. (In those days it was just one organization, it was the welfare, Douglas County Welfare and there was no CSD, there was no division, it was all one thing. You were a caseworker, you did it all. And a guy named William May was the head of it.) So we went to him first and explained what we wanted to do and asked him if we could get names of people on welfare so we could send out notices out to them that we were going to have this big organizational meeting to try to organize something. And he kind of supported us, kind of not. But he said, yeah, we could come into his office and we could, uh, copy down, you know, get names off right there and write out the invitations and stuff. So we sent out probably a thousand invitations, 500 to 1000 invitations to people that we were going to have this big organizational meeting at the fairgrounds.
AW: How many people came?
ME: Oh, 30 or 40. And, uh, out of that core group, we began to have people who really wanted to be involved, you know. And we started having meetings at my house with my girlfriend, Bonnie [Britan], we, we lived in the same house, we shared expenses. And, um, we had meetings there. And they were rip-snorters, let me tell you.
[laughter]
AW: They would stick in their minds?
ME: Oh, yeah, we had some real rip-snorting meetings. And then we’d go out afterwards and have a good time. [laughs] Oh, yes. A lot of partying went on in those days! A lot of partying.
Anyhow, in 1969, in September of ‘69, um, well before, let me go, go back. We, uh, decided we needed to follow the same steps that they did in Eugene and we needed to incorporate as a non-profit organization. And, so we needed a name and we needed to do all the legal stuff. So, we got Daryl Johnson, who’s now deceased, to represent us, to be our attorney to, to help us do this. And David Sonnie was just really an imaginative man. And he helped us think of the name of Parents Action Council. Parents, with a, so it’s our, organization. Parents Action Council, Incorporated. And that’s what we named ourselves, P.A.C. And we filled out all the paperwork to become incorporated and Daryl Johnson got us incorporated. And in Decembr, September, 1969 is when we got incorporated. And it’s on our corporation papers, which probably are in the main office, should be. If not, I have a copy somewhere at home, with some of the stuff I’m going to send you that shows the names of the officers. And in those days my name was Walker. And I was known as “Walker the Talker”. Now this is, remember this is a lady who never left her house.
AW: Who was very shy.
ME: Uh-huh. But at this point I was talking to county commissioners, and I was going to meetings, and I was doing all kinds of, cause it’s something I firmly believed in. I really believed in what I was doing.
AW: You got really motivated.
ME: Yeah. Extremely so. And, and as a group we did a, some fairly major things in our county. Uh, this is all before clinic ever started. One of the first things that we did is, in those days, there was a sign at Payless that said welfare recipients have to pick up their medical prescriptions after 5 o’clock, a real discrimination. And we protested it. We went in and we protested and the sign came down. Which would not have happened without our group.
AW: How, how, you went in as a group to talk to the management at Payless?
ME: We went in as a group and talked to the guy at Payless and said “This is not okay!”
AW: And they took it down right away? Just one, one visit did it?
ME: Yep, yep, yep, sure did.
AW: How impressive. I’ve told people this story but I’ve always never known quite how you went about doing it.
ME: Yes, we did. We went in and there was about five of us. And we went in and said “This is not okay.” You know, we, we, “You do not have the right to discriminate against us.”
AW: Just think of the poor babies that go to the doctor in the morning and have to wait till 5 to get their medicine.
ME: And just to have the sign. That says "welfare recipients". That’s not okay. We’re normal people, just because we live off of welfare. You know, welfare was our means of support for our children. It’s not, not okay to make us be attention of the, of the whole pharmacy, you know. So, that happened.
Uh, the other thing that happened, is there was money that was coming into our county for kids to have free lunch, free lunches at school. But it wasn’t being used, it was being sent back. Because they, they were sending it back and saying there wasn’t any poverty in Douglas County.
AW: [laughs]
ME: And there was all this stuff came across David Sonnie’s desk at the welfare office. And, unfortunately it disappeared, but what happened is we protested that also. We should, there is poverty and we need that money here. And as a consequence we now have free lunches in school. That wouldn’t have happened without Parents Action Council.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Well, I mean it would have happened eventually. Somebody would have protested.
AW: But Parents Action Council were the ones who did it.
...
ME: ... So, anyhow, and I was working at… Okay I had gone to school, I had a baby, and then I went into training. I went into a training program, uh, the Title V program put me in as a work experience at the Employment Office. And I was working there for the summer. And I was getting work experience. And P.A.C., we were doing P.A.C. too, you know. And I got this thing that came across my desk at, uh, when I was working, about a program in Medford called the Confidence Clinic. And it was, had all the elements in it of the things that I needed and all those other women had needed in order to make a much easier transition from our homes into the college. It had things about how you dress for going out in the world, how you do make-up, how you uh, uh, handle child care. You know, all the things that we felt we needed, that we would have liked to have had, this Confidence Clinic was helping them learn, learn in Medford. So, I asked if I, we could go down there. And there several of us piled in the car and we made arrangements and met with Kathy Houck, the dir…, the person who started this whole movement, who had dreamed it all up, who was the director of the Confidence Clinic in Medford.
AW: Kathy How?
ME: Kathy Houck, Houck, h o u c k. And I think she’s gone now. She was quite older than the rest us, so I’m sure she’s probably gone. Um, but that’s, that was the very first Confidence Clinic, is the one that, that’s what she started in Medford.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And that’s what it was called, is the Confidence Clinic. So I spent the day with her. Learning the philosophy, learning all of the curriculum that she did, how she did it, why she did it, getting copies of everything. Um, just brainstorming with her, how it might work in our area. And when we came back I decided we’re going to have a Confidence Clinic.
...
ME: At the part, at that point we had, oh, probably a core of maybe sevem people that were made up of Parents Action Council. We had myself, we had Patsy Shadley, uh, Bonnie Brittan.
... We needed to have something to, to bring it all together. And I got really jazzed up. Uh, and the group that went to Medford, David Sonnie was one of them, Diane Herbert was one of them, and there was me, and there was a lady uh, who worked at the Employment Service, that I worked with.
But I got really jazzed up. And when we came back I decided, we went to a meeting, and I said “I want to do this.” And, they said, “Fine, do it.” So, first of all, [we] thought about (‘cause Kathy had talked to me about how important it was to find the right people to do it. The right people to have the, the skills and the attitude that we needed to work with women, um, in those circumstances). And Marge Clark fit every bill for the program coordinator. She was loving, she was nurturing, she was strict. She had tons of skills.
...
So I called her up and I said, “Margie, this is what I want to do and I want you to be a part of this, I want you to help me.” And she thought about it, and “Oh, oh, I guess so,” you know, “Yeah we need it.” So, anyhow she did.
...
Okay, well, about that same time, Patsy Shadley was going to be moving out of this old, big old house. And the way that the clinic in Medford was funded was the State of Oregon, the welfare department, the Human Resources department with the State of Oregon contracted with their ADC association in Jackson County to provide that service for their clients. So they were paying clients to provide the service to their other clients.
AW: Okay, and that, that brings me the question I had in mind of these people that you’ve been naming. None of you had college degrees, right, at this point?
ME: No, no we did not, no.
AW: But you were going to provide the services and it’s, and the state was open to having you provide services.
ME: Uh-huh, absolutely, they were excited about it.
AW: As, as clients, as welfare clients providing services for other welfare clients?
ME: That’s right. And the person who was in charge of that, his name was Hal Miller. And he came down, he met with us, uh, myself and uh, there was several other people, David was one of them, and David was very instrumental in this whole thing. And Marge and other people came down to talk to us about how this whole thing would work, you know, how we would contract, what it would pay, all the things we’d have to do.
AW: And this Kathy How?
ME: Kathy Houck.
AW: Houck? She was also, had been a welfare…
ME: Yes.
AW: …client?
ME: Yes, she had been.
AW: She had been too, okay, great.
ME: Yes, yes, she did not have a degree either.
AW: Great.
ME: But she had a heart.
AW: She had a heart?
ME: And she had a brain.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And she knew what she needed so she knew what other women in that situation needed.
AW: Yeah, and that’s, I think that’s a really key piece.
ME: Uh-huh, that is a very key piece to it. In fact that created a lot of tension within our clinic once we got it started and I’ll tell you about that, that need.
AW: That’s why, I’m, I’m really loving having the AmeriCorps workers today, because uh, we choose our AmeriCorps workers from people who have just graduated from our program…
ME: Yes, absolutely.
AW: …and it’s really, really valuable.
ME: Well, unless you’ve been there, it’s hard to understand what you’re going through, you know.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And I don’t care how many degrees you have. If you haven’t been in poverty and lived in those situations, you don’t know what it’s like. You know, you can think you do all you want , but you don’t really know. And there’s nobody gonna convince me that that’s gonna replace, can be replaced by anybody with a degree. Just because you’ve got a degree in this doesn’t mean you know how to do it.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Anyhow, I digress.
AW: Go, that’s great, digressions are what this is all about.
ME: Anyhow, we decided that if we were going to do this, Patsy Shadley’s house, the one on Rast Court, would be the perfect place to do it. And we needed to make the arrangements and make, get everything together to get a contract so we could have the money to do this. So, I, I was still doing a work experience at the, at, uh, the
AW: The Employment Office?
ME: The Employment Office. And part of what I’ve got at home that I wanted to give you was the, their newsletter that tells the whole story about this because I did, uh, on-the-job training. That’s how my position was paid as I developed this thing, I got paid for doing it.
AW: Isn’t that cool?
ME: Yeah, and that’s in that article that I wanted to give you. I’ll still find it and give it to you. Um, so I was being paid to, to contact these people, develop all this thing.
Anyhow, we got the contract with, with the state and then we got the house.
So, Marge was in charge of getting the house ready. Uh, my, we needed, we needed to have, in order to pass the fire inspection, we had to have an exit out of the upstairs of that house, so my father donated the lumber. And the welfare caseworkers and William May, the director, and all of them came and built the fire escape. That’s where that outside fire escape came from. Um, and they did a lot of work, they repainted. I mean, here’s the welfare director, William May, in our house, helping to wallpaper and do all this stuff, you know, and getting it ready.
And while they were doing most of that I was out recruiting women. And I got names from our sympathetic caseworkers who wanted to help us and who felt it was a good program. And I actually went to the women’s houses and talked to them. Marge and I together, sometimes, or me alone, and recruited them to come to clinic. It was nothing mandatory.
AW: “Walker talker”.
ME: Uh-huh, “Walker, the Talker”. That’s right.
...
AW: And you were the first director?
ME: I was the director. I was the director for 10 years.
...
ME: Yeah, um, Marge and I took the curriculum that Kathy used and we, uh, we had to find people to teach some of the things, so we approached the League of Women Voters, who had been very interested and very instrumental in helping us get the building ready. There were women who, from them that helped. It was a community effort, you know.
... Um, our building needed a new roof so I went to the county commissioners and talked to them. And they took old roofing from, uh, buildings they’d done for the county. That’s why we, we had a multi-colored roof for a long time.
AW: (laughs)
ME: Because they took leftovers and had people come and do the roof for us. Because it leaked like a dang sieve . [laughs] So, we had a multi-colored roof but it didn’t leak on us anyway.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Anyway, it was, it was fun. Anyhow, we had to find people to teach these, we had to find people to teach GED, we had to find people to teach driving, we had to find people to teach home improvements, we had to find… Marge taught sewing cause she was an expert seamstress. And in those days sewing was real important because you, to buy material and make clothes for yourself and your kids was a whole lot cheaper than you could buy them.
… See we had no contracts with the college [at that time], we had no college people. These were all volunteer teachers that did this. The very first session I taught GED myself because we didn’t have anybody else. Uh, I believe it was Jacie or Lori Agost that taught driving, that took the women out to teach them how to drive, ‘cause most of us didn’t know how to drive. I didn’t know how to drive. I got my driver’s license in the Confidence Clinic.
AW: While you were director?
ME: Yeah, I learned how to drive.
AW: [laughs]
ME: You know, I, up to that point, I didn’t know how to drive.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Um, and as many other women were the same way. You have to remember this is backwards Oregon, in Rose-, little old Roseburg in the, in the 1970’s. [laughs] There were many of us who didn’t know how to drive. I was trying to think who all taught everything. I did most, Marge and I did the, um, around the table stuff, most of it. The, we, we did the self-image series ourselves. We took what Kathy had and we developed our own series and we did it, Marge and I.
AW: Did you use that little thing where there’s a, the self-profile, where’s there’s the little girl sitting there. Did you guys?
ME: Yep.
AW: You used that one?
ME: Yep,
AW: Yep
ME: Sure did.
AW: We still use it.
...
ME: And then, of course, we found some things of our own as we went on doing it, but…
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: The self-image stuff was real important and we followed her curriculum right down the line.
...
AW: What were some of the problems that you had in the early sessions in terms of getting it going or how to...
ME: Ohhhh, keeping the caseworkers out of the clinic. Number one, always has been. They wanted to be involved. They wanted to be there. And in order for the clinic to work it had to belong to the women. It had to be the place that they could be safe, they could say what they needed to say. If that means they wanted to cuss out a caseworker, they could. Uh, if they had negative things to say they could say them and not have be feared, have fear of retaliation. But the caseworkers wanted to be involved, they wanted to be in the clinic. They wanted to come in and we had to put, and Kathy had the same problem in Medford, too.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: So I knew how she had handled it, so I could handle it the same way.
AW: And I still had problems with that when I first came here.
ME: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I just, we just had to put, no, these are the hours that you cannot be here. And during clinic time unless it was by appointment and they met in a certain room. They were not allowed. They wanted to just come walk in whenever they felt like it, and they couldn’t do it. That’s, that has been always a rule. I mean without that type of protection for the women, you don’t have a Confidence Clinic because they don’t feel like they’re safe at what they have to say. And we had the same rules, we had to create the same rules, what’s said in the group, stays in the group. And there were times, there’s, I remember at least three times when women were asked to leave the clinic because they violated the trust of the group.
...
ME: ...we’d get real close, well you know, you get real close to the women.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: You know, there’s always, and we had three staff people and the idea was that out of the three, somebody bonded with everybody, you know. I mean, so you had a good uh, group that somebody might hate my guts, but they loved Marge, you know?
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: So there was always somebody that you bonded with.
AW: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
ME: Yeah, so it was pretty hard.
AW: It sounds like clinic has stayed very true over the years.
ME: I think it has, it has because you have to; it’s the only way to survive.
AW: It doesn’t work otherwise.
ME: And it’s still hard for people too, who do not know, to understand why you do the things you do. But you have to do that, you have to keep those caseworkers out of the private time for the women, you have to make that place feel safe for the women that are there, because if you don’t, you’ve lost the whole clinic.
AW: Now, I have, I have a question, Margaret, um. One of the things that I’ve always emphasized with staff when I’m training them is that it’s really important that they grow themselves. That, that if they don’t they’re going to burn out real quick and they’re not going to do a good job.
ME: That’s right.
AW: And that they have to be learning as much as the women are.
ME: Absolutely and Marge and I…
AW: And did you have that?
ME: Oh yeah, we learned a lot.
AW: Early?
ME: I mean all the stuff that we taught we learned too.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: A lot of it we had covered, you know, when we went to college. A lot of things, new things for us, that we didn’t know. But then, uh, particularly in psychology classes, you know. But then as we taught self-image and all the other things, we were part of it, you know. I learned how to sew better.
AW: And you learned how to drive.
ME: I learned how to drive. I learned a lot of stuff about self-image and self-confidence. And, Marge did to, you know. We all did. It was a growing process for all of us.
AW: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
ME: We were not the “leaders,” we were part of the group.
AW: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
ME: You know, we just, we just made it all.
AW: I always say the women are the teachers. That’s why we’re the "coordinators". The women are the teachers. They teach each other and us.
ME: Yeah, that’s right. We just, we made it all happen. We made it all happen. I mean we were the ones that were out there front making the money, getting the money in and that stuff. But as far as the, the group itself, we were all in it together. And that’s, yeah, you’re right you have to grow with it because you can’t survive if you don’t.
AW: Yeah, you get, you get defensive. If you’re not growing then you start getting defensive and then you start acting out your stuff on the women
ME: Right.
AW: And then you’re not, uh, you’re not helping them. Because uh, you know, I did a job description then I’ll be quiet because this is really your interview. But I did, I had to, we had to do a job description with a certain form and how much percentage of time we spent doing this thing and how many percent. I ended up with 300%. 100% was role modeling. You know you have to walk the, walk the walk.
ME: Uh-huh, uh-huh, you have to walk the talk, I mean talk the walk, whatever it is, walk the talk.
AW: And, and one, another 100% was making the place safe. Everything you do you have to be thinking about how that’s going to impact the safety of the space for the women. And then the other 100% were just what we did, you know. And uh, and when I handed it in to the main office they said, “300%?” And I said, “Yeah, we have to put 300% out all the time.”
ME: That’s exactly, you’ve got it right, right down. And anybody who doubts that is crazy, they don’t know what they’re talking about ‘cause you’re right, I mean, you are setting an example the entire time that you’re there.
AW: You can never… Even though you are one of the group…
ME: That’s right.
AW: ...in one sense, on the other sense you have to always remember that they are looking to you.
ME: For guidance, yes.
AW: And you can tell them one thing and do another and you’ve lost them.
ME: They’re going to look at what you did, not what you said. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
So, anyhow, where was I? Uh, first group. Out of the very first group, well we knew this before we ever started as Parents Action Council that child care was a real issue because there was no child care. There was one day care center in Roseburg and that was the Mother Goose Nursery, and they didn’t take low income kids. You know, there was no subsidies or anything. So we knew that child care was going to be a real issue because it was an issue for us when we went to college. I mean finding day care for our kids was just almost impossible. So, one of the things we decided we were going to do is we were going to start a day care center. So we’d have a place.
AW: Did you start that before or after the first clinic session?
ME: Oh no, it was after, it was after. Yeah, we started working on that, um, during the first year of clinic.
AW: I see.
ME: Because it didn’t open until ’72, I believe it was, yeah.
AW: That’s the Sunshine House?
ME: Sunshine House, yes. And Diane Herbert, who had been a caseworker, one of those that was involved, she was the first director of Sunshine House. And it opened in the basement of the Presbyterian Church. We got a five thousand dollar grant, I don’t remember, seed money, I don’t remember where that came from. You know, to help get it started. My kids were the first two kids in the door, because my baby was too young, David. But my two older kids were the first two. And that’s when Marty Young came in. She was hired as the head teacher for Sunshine House. She and Allen had just moved to Roseburg. He had gotten a pharmacy position at Douglas Community Hospital. And she became the head teacher at Sunshine House under Diane Herbert, who was the director. And that’s how I met Martha. And we have been friends ever since.
AW: And now you were the director of the Confidence Clinic.
ME: I was the director.
AW: She was the lead teacher at Sunshine House.
ME: Uh-huh.
AW: Diane Herbert was the director of Sunshine House.
ME: Uh-huh.
AW: And who was the head of P.A.C.?
ME: Uh, David Sonnie was the unofficial head. We didn’t have any paid position at that point. He, he was kind of the unofficial one. But then Head Start became something we wanted. So, when we started working on getting Head Start here, which meant a lot of wining and dining of federal officials.
Because there had been a little summer program here. Uh, in the Fir Grove school. They had a little summer school, uh, Head Start program. My daughter, Hope, had been involved in that. But we needed a full year program. And they weren’t going to do it any more. I can’t remember exactly all the details now. But they weren’t going to do it anymore at the school and somehow, uh, we got involved in competing against, I believe it was the school, school district, to become the provider of the Head Start program.
Let me tell you we wined and dined those officials all over the place. And Mr. David Sonnie was a talker, talker. And it was a real battle, but they finally, we finally convinced them that low income people providing that service for other low income people was the best way to do this. So we got the contract for the Head Start program. And David Sonnie became the director of Head Start.
So those were our key programs, Confidence Clinic was first, day care Sunshine House was second, and Head Start was third. And, uh, then we decided to try to do a men’s clinic. And we started a men’s clinic. It was in the upstairs above where the old Lariat Room used to be.
AW: Um.
ME: I don’t know what’s there now it’s another bar, I think, or restaurant. Do you know where that’s at? It’s on Pine Street, going out of town?
AW: You talking about Reston Red’s, or?
ME: No, it’s, it’s down across from, uh, it’s on Pine Street, you know where the bread store used to be on Pine Street?
AW: The Wonder Bread?
ME: Uh-huh.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Just same parking lot. It was right across the street, and up, if you look above there’s, uh, uh, rooms up there. There’s a whole floor up there that at one time was the Elk’s Lodge, or the Eagle’s Lodge I guess it is, the Eagle’s Lodge. And we rented that whole area. And we hired a guy named Charles Chamberlain, (which is another story) to be the director. And we started this men’s program based on the same premise of the women’s program. Well, testosterone gets in the way.
[laughter]
AW: I was going to ask because we get asked about, we still get asked about why there isn’t a clinic for men and I keep saying, “Well I asked and we tried it sometime.” So I’m really interested in this part of the history.
ME: Well, there are certain parts of it that can work, but working with men it’s a whole lot different than working with women. Their ego’s in the way. You know, and there’s, there’s a lot, there was a lot more conflict, actual physical conflict. It just didn’t work well.
AW: What’s interesting is they found in schools, in academic situations, that men do better when they are with women…
ME: Yep.
AW: But women do better when they’re not with men.
ME: Yes.
AW: And because, uh, the presence of women tends to moderate the testosterone levels.
ME: Absolutely.
AW: But, but women tend to kow-tow to men and not come forward and express themselves.
ME: That’s right, absolutely, well this proves the doubt.
AW: And so this bore it out.
Me: Because, oh yeah, oh yeah, we only had, we lasted, I think, about six months. And it just, um.
AW: They had fights?
ME: Oh yeah, terrible, terrible! There was always something going on up there.
AW: Women have fights too.
ME: I know.
AW: Did you have experience of that?
ME: No, that never happened in clinic when I was there, never did. It may have happened outside but it didn’t happen in the clinic.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Because that, we had, we had an absolute rule that no physical, no physical violence.
AW: Yeah, we never had fist fights in my time either, but we’ve had, we’ve had, um,
ME: Verbal.
AW: A lot of conflict from time to time.
ME: Yeah, there’s always, there’s going to be conflict no matter what, yeah, yeah, but no physical, absolutely none. That would get you thrown out immediately.
AW: Yeah, same, that still holds. That still holds.
ME: But it just, I mean there may be a way to do it for men, but I don’t know how. Our model that we used for our Confidence Clinic for women…
AW: Didn’t work for men.
ME: …did not work for, for men. It just, there’s, I don’t know how you’d make it work for men, to be honest with you.
...
ME: The other thing that we tried over the years is we tried a food co-op. Because that was another problem that low income people had and that was getting, you know affordable food, good food at a price we could afford. So we, we started a food co-op. Well that didn’t last very long either. And we hired John Stultzer, who now does the computer program for the Cow Creek tribe. He was the first director of our food co-op and it was down on Mill Street, in a store fronted on Mill Street. It was an experiment, we did a lot of experiments.
AW: Did a lot of experimenting, yeah I know. And UCAN over the years has been responsible for starting a lot of programs in this county.
ME: Uh-huh, right. And we tried a transitional housing program, uh, for battered women. This was before…there was no BPA, there was nothing.
I mean we were instrumental in, in helping meet… we helped a lot of organizations get started in this county. BPA was one of them. Uh, the Legal Aids, Legal Aid was another one, was another one. Members from our group sat on the boards to help get these created. Um, I’m trying to think what else. There was several other things.
One thing we wanted to do eventually is we wanted to become a CAP agency, a Community Action Agency. And when I was there we had, we looked into but we couldn’t meet the criteria that the feds had. So that didn’t happen until after I had retired. And, um, other people took over the whole organization, and somehow the rules happened and they became a Community Action Agency and that’s when they went out to Diamond Lake Boulevard and became Umpqua Community Action Agency. But up until that point it had been Parents Action Council, P.A.C.
... So that’s how it all started.
...
AW: It’s interesting to me that many things can change.
ME: But many things stay the same.
AW: And, and yet many things, the, the heart part stays the same. Which, which goes to the next question, which is can you tell a story or two that shows how your experiences at the Confidence Clinic have impacted your life?
ME: Well, number one I learned how to drive.
[laughter]
AW: That’s a big, a big event.
ME: Number two I came, had to come out of my shell, I had to be outgoing, I had to be, um, uh able to talk to people. And I couldn’t before that.
AW: And you became “Walker, the Talker”.
ME: I had to really, I had to really believe in what I was doing and I believed in it with all my heart. I still do. I think the clinic is the best program that, that uh, Parents Action Council or UCAN could have ever started. And I think it would be very foolish to let that program die. You know, it’s needed more today than it was even then. The problems are greater now. I don’t know how you’re going to keep it funded. I mean funding was an issue even back then after we lost our…
AW: It’s always going to be an issue, I’ve never known it not to be an issue.
ME: It’s always going to be an issue. You just have to believe in the program and sell it.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And if you have to, you do it as a volunteer program like we did in the beginning, you know. Just find enough money to keep the building open and the staff paid.
AW: And that’s actually in somewhat the direction using AmeriCorps members and, and work experience volunteers.
ME: Yeah. Yeah. Because it works.
AW: It is, is something that we are moving in that direction on.
ME: That program works.
AW: So, um.
ME: Let’s see, I learned how to sew, I learned how to drive, uh, I learned how to get over my shyness. I learned how to be an administrator, and things like taking care of the checkbook and doing all the books and all that kind of stuff. I had training for it when I went to college, that’s what I went to college for. So I knew how to do it; I just had never done it.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: I had to learn that. I learned I was good at what I was doing, you know.
AW: And you were.
ME: Uh-huh, I was. I was very good at it. Because I have a heart for it. I had a heart for, I had a heart for those women.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: Because my heart was the same as theirs. And still is.
AW: And still is. So, the third question is what do you think is the essence of the Confidence Clinic experience?
ME: Well, I think I’ve already covered that. It’s the feeling, you know the essence is that it’s their place, it’s our place, it’s the safe place, it’s the growth place, where you can grow without fear, without anybody condemning you, or looking down on you and thinking they’re better than you are.
AW: Sort of the unconditional acceptance in the place is what makes it safe.
ME: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. That’s why it’s important, it’s so important to keep those people that have the ability to intimidate out of there, or out of the group experience for the sharing.
AW: Yeah and they don’t even mean to intimidate necessarily.
ME: Unless, unless they’re invited in. No, they don’t mean to intimidate, but they do.
AW: Just their existence because of who they are.
ME: The women that are there are, are very, very much, um vulnerable. They… You’ve got to be aware of that all the time, how, even though you may not be intimidated, this woman can be.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: And this needs to be a place where they’re not intimidated. And if there’s somebody comes in, they’re invited. They’re people who are invited to, to share something with the group.
AW: Now, I’ve, I’ve never even (and you know because you were the director of UCAN for many years), I’ve, I’ve never even let my boss or the director of UCAN come in without the women inviting them and knowing the women okaying it.
ME: That’s right. That’s right. And that’s the way it should be. It’s got, that is the essence as far as I’m concerned. It’s got to be a safe place for them.
AW: Uh-huh.
ME: In all aspects.
AW: It’s about the women.
ME: It’s about the women.
MARGE (CLARK) BLADORN (March 12, 2008)
MB: ...And then I had to give a talk, a speech to the Kiwanis Club, I think it was the Kiwanis Club, one of the big clubs here in town. And I never spoke before anybody and I was very, very, uh…
AW: Nervous?
MB: Yeah. I had to take a tranquilizer before I went.
AW: [laughs]
MB: And I, I said, I heard them say “I hope it’s somebody from uh, a big college.” And so I got up there and I said, “Well I’m not from U, UCC” or something else or whatever they were talking about. But I said ,”I have, I’m uh, I’ve been, I’m, I’ve got a lot of experience being in life.” I can’t remember how I put it and I talked and talked and told them about the clinic, what it was.
AW: Uh-huh.
MB: And, man, they all stood up and gave me a, what do you call it?
AW: A standing ovation?
MB: Yeah, a standing ovation.
AW: Oh, that’s nice.
MB: But I told them I had never spoken before in a group, before, you know.
AW: So, the Confidence Clinic sort of forced you to be really brave then, huh?
MB: Yeah.
AW: Yeah.
MB: Oh, I was already brave, it wasn’t that. It was just that at the last minute she was supposed to talk and then she’d come and say, “You’ll have to do it, I’ve got a headache.”
AW: That was Margaret?
MB: Yeah.
AW: [laughs]
MB: And she wouldn’t budge, and so what was I going to do? I just had an outline of what to talk about. But, it must have went over okay.
...
AW: What do you thing is the essence of the Confidence Clinic experience? What do you think is the most important thing that helped them do that? What is it, why was it so successful?
MB: Well, for one thing, they learned about themselves and how they could do things, which they thought they couldn’t. It gave them uh confidence in their own ability for one thing.
AW: And how did you do that? You’re the one who worked with the women. So how did uh, it’s clear that you did that, how did you do that?
MB: Well Margaret worked, too, with them. We all did it. Um, well by giving them the uh tools for one thing to a, to a do what they wanted to do and then we motivated them. And, and showed them they could pass their GED. They could get a job. They could do all this if they wanted to.
AW: So, you, you, you gave them tools, you motivated them, you were a role model for them. You um showed them um opportunities.
MB: Different ways.
AW: That they hadn’t thought were real for them.
MB: Different ways to approach things even.
AW: Okay, problem solving, different ways to approach things...
MB: Like in their marriage. If they were married, you know, and they had problems. And show them how there’s more ways than one. Instead of yelling at their husbands and putting them down, you know, walk away until you cool off and then talk about it.
AW: Uh-huh.
MB: Stuff like that.
AW: So anger management and relationship skills.
MB: Yeah, we had that.
...
AW: You said something about um helping them do what they wanted to do.
MB: Yeah.
AW: And, instead of trying to push them in a direction, find out what they want. To me that’s really key.
MB: Well, you, you have to because, you know, these are grown women. We had one that was 60 years old.
...
AW: Uh-huh. And what you just said is so important to the, what the Confidence Clinic is because that whole principle of the Confidence Clinic is you don’t have to stay stuck.
MB: Right.
AW: You can make change. And if you don’t believe it, you stay stuck.
MB: That’s right.
AW: But once you believe it, you can do it.
MB: If they’re willing to, to be part of the program and just be, really be a part of it. This one girl wouldn’t wear makeup and that’s fine with me, but they kind of pushed her, you know, because she wouldn’t wear makeup, and that was the way she was. She never did put it on. I thought they should just leave her alone and just if she don’t want to be.
AW: Uh-huh. That’s an individual choice.
MB: That’s right. If she don’t want to be graded, I mean, get a grade for what she did. There was no, um perks for it.
AW: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
MB: You know, you just…
AW: One thing we’ve been really good about more recently is letting people “pass” as along as they don’t pass at everything. But if, you know, if you can’t do something, you, you do have that option of saying, “I, I can’t do it today” or “I’m not going to do it now.” Um and that’s all right.
MB: Yeah because, you know, she was raised that way. That’s, that’s her business if she don’t want to wear makeup, you know. She always came neat and clean. But they tried to get her to apply makeup and she wouldn’t do it. And I had to. I had to respect her for that.
AW: Good for her. And good for you.
...
AW: There’s something about that, to me, there’s something, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but there’s something about telling people what they have to do.
MB: Right.
AW: And, like trying to force the girl to put makeup on or telling people “Just pull yourselves up by your bootstraps” or telling people you have to this or have to do that. There’s something about that that just creates resistance.
MB: Yep.
AW: And that girl that they were putting all that pressure on, you said, never did put on makeup.
MB: No, she didn’t believe in it.
AW: And, and, and if they had instead said, “Well, you know, that’s okay, uh you don’t have to put on makeup, but can you just sit with us and watch while we do it?” She might have wanted to try. But, um
MB: She never did.
AW: There’s something about trying to force people to do things instead of respecting what they want.
MB: Yeah, I think when you start forcing and stuff they put this wall up.
AW: Uh-huh.
MB: They’re not going to, uh. They’re gonna do what they want to.
AW: And that’s what I’m hearing from you, I mean in little things, in, in what you’ve been saying is that, that, that there’s a really key [point] about respecting the choices of the women.
MB: Right.
AW: Even if they're not the choices you would prefer.
MB: Right.
MARY (BOWDEN) MURPHY (April 1, 2008)
MM: Okay. I’m not going to go into a long history about myself, I’m just going to say the fact that I ended up in Sutherlin, Oregon because I was running, literally running, trying to escape from an abusive relationship, a life threatening relationship. In fact that, um I had surgery for two hours because of this relationship, because of abuse. I had my children with me, my brother was helping me. We had stopped to get something to eat at Sutherlin, Oregon - had no idea… He had come in disguise to get me from California, where I was hiding out from, where I had run from Nebraska. Anyway, we stopped in Sutherlin to get something to eat and there was a sign in this trailer, for rent. And we were kind of thinking of going to Eugene because he lived in Grants Pass, so it wasn’t too terribly far from him. Whoever heard of Sutherlin, we certainly hadn’t. Or Roseburg, for that matter.
AW: And you’re still living in Sutherlin.
MM: Yes, I’m still after 1973, however many years that is. Um, and so we stopped, and we went to talk to the person about the trailer, and it was for rent. And I didn’t have any money, I had nothing but the clothes on my back and my kids. And he paid the $110 a month, whatever it was, I don’t know if that’s what it was, but it wasn’t a whole lot in those days. Um, and he left me.
And if nobody knows what it’s like, there was nobody that can know where I was, nobody, except my parents and my brother. Because many other times when I had tried to leave, this man had found me. Because he was such a charmer and had so much charisma that people, even though they knew what he was like, would tell them where I was. They would believe that he would change. As many women dealing with abusive situations can’t understand.
Anyway, so I’m there in this trailer all by myself. It’s very depressing. I’m very paranoid. I’m keeping the drapes closed, not opening them at all. However, one evening, I heard a women screaming in the trailer behind me. Had not met her because of course I had not met anybody at all. I went over there and she was being abused, and beaten on, and of course I just ran right in. I have no fear if somebody else is getting abused. You know, I can stick up for other people more than myself, really.
And I just laid into the guy and said, “You know, I’m calling the police, get out.” And, anyway, I said words that I won’t even say here, that I didn’t even know I knew. Because what was happening to this woman had happened to me. And it was just a deja-vu, it was just, it was just dreadful.
Well, men that are abusers are cowards. They are cowards. And so when somebody else came on the scene, he left. Anyway, I went back to, this woman’s name was Sherry, and no, I can’t remember her last name. But anyway, um she was one of two Sherrys that lived in that trailer park.
And so, a day later, or a couple of days later, there was a knock on my door. And there was a man, my lord, think of that, a man at my door! And so, of course, I did open it, it was in the middle of the day, and this fellow’s name was Larry Lissman. And in those days, CSD, Larry Lissman was a caseworker for Children’s Services, and he did the outreach for the Confidence Clinic. And so he had been over to Sherry’s. He had been, he was her caseworker, and he had been over there, and she had told him about me, and I saved her, and blah, blah. So, he came over, “Oh perfect person for the Confidence Clinic.”
And, I don’t know, he talked for awhile, and I said, “Okay, I’ll go, blah, blah, I’ll go this day or that, whatever.” He said, “Okay.” So he came back, it was the third time, but I would never go, you know, I didn’t want any part of being out in the real world.
And so the third time he came back, he said… Oh, in the meantime I had met another Sherry, in the trailer park, that was going to the Confidence Clinic ... And uh so she was kind of saying, “Oh, come, come, come with me.” And so forth. So since I knew somebody I thought, all right, I’ll ride in with Sherry. (Of course I had no vehicle.) I’ll ride in with Sherry one time, and go to this place one time, and then just never go back, and maybe he’ll leave me alone.
Of course, now knowing Larry, he would have never left me alone until I went. But, anyway, so I went. And the clinic had, there was 20 women that went to the clinic. And they were broken down into groups of two, and once a week they would have group sessions. And there would be a man in each session, very special, special person. The staff knew how to pick a special person.
Um, many of the women did not like men, they had been abused, they had been raped, they had experienced incest, anything imaginable, they had gone through. And so this man had to be very special. He also had to be able to take the hate that might just be coming out of these women. And they could do that. They were truly special men.
And after sitting in that group, this group happened the first day I went, so after sitting in that group for one day, and listening to the stories. (Nobody was forced to do anything. You did whatever you wanted to do. So, of course, I did nothing.) I just sat there and glared at the man in the group, who was David Sonnie, by the way.
But, anyway, it took me a long time to even talk, truly. And then something he said made me angry, when finally I started to join the group, verbally. I was always there, but not verbally.
But after listening, that first day after listening to these things that these women had gone through, and I thought nobody had experienced the things I had experienced. I truly did. I truly thought that.
I was raised in a very middle class family, who had never heard of welfare, never heard of abuse, never heard of any of the things that women experience, truly, truly.
It changed, right then I stopped feeling sorry for myself. Went home, opened the curtains a little bit, maybe not all the way at first, but a little bit, but went to the clinic from thereafter.
I became so involved, as I said it took me awhile to open up, but I became so involved with the women in my group, I’m still close friends with many of them today. The staff are my special, special friends.
For some reason, Margaret Ellison, who was one of the founders of the clinic, one of the founders of Parents Action Council, saw something in me, I’m not sure what she would have to say to this day, saw something. Margaret belonged on all, so many boards in those days, because the goal of P.A.C. was to get the community aware of low income folks. Most boards are supposed to have a low income person on their board, if they represent low income people. And they didn’t.
And so one of the first things P.A.C. did was make sure somebody in the P.A.C. group, a small group, but somebody would go to all these boards that were representing supposedly low income folks, with no low income people on the board.
So she drug me along, I don’t even know how, why I went, but she’s persuasive. Maybe because her birthday’s the same as mine...same day, same year, everything. So I went to the board with her. And I believe maybe the first board was District 6 Manpower. I don’t know. It could have been something else. But that’s one board that I ended up on. That is the board, or the program that is now UTEP. See, over 30 some years ago, all these programs had different names.
AW: Umpqua Training and Employment.
MM: Yes, yeah. And so, that’s how I started. And I have been involved with the Confidence Clinic and with P.A.C., or UCAN it is now known, ever since then, in some way, in some way. Even if I’ve been working in a different program, somehow the clinic, especially, has always been involved. If I was working at Head Start, there was Head Start parents that I would refer to the clinic. My last place I worked was the HIV Resource Center, uh, which has a different name now, I can’t, I’m not even sure.
AW: Harm Reduction Center.
MM: Harm Reduction Center, very good. Thank you, Anna. Uh, and I would go and talk to the girls and do HIV testing, and so forth.
But the clinic saved my life or my soul. It truly did, and it is still doing that today. It is still doing that. And it’s just uh, it’s just uh ….. and get a self-image. I don’t even mean make it better. People that went to the clinic, like myself, didn’t have a self-image, didn’t have any, just zero, despair, despair. And it was just amazing those people, they just uh put their life out there, put everything out there for the women that went through the clinic.
And I think this is wonderful, what Anna’s trying to do. And that’s all I have to say right now, I can think of a hundred different things, and maybe we’ll talk about them later, like uh, maybe I’ll do just a little bit more - when I got out of the clinic. When I got out of the clinic I went to college and took law enforcement. And was actually the very first volunteer probation officer, in Douglas County. And they still have that program today. As far as I know. I believe that they still do. And I had two women, and I wasn’t very good at it, I wasn’t very good at, I think it was teens I might have been better, because I wasn’t, I didn’t come down hard enough when I should have, so it wasn’t maybe my thing to do. But I stayed with my women for year, and they did okay. But, uh…
AW: You don’t think you were tough enough?
MM: No, I wasn’t tough enough. If I smelt marijuana I might not have said anything about it.
AW: Uh-huh.
MM: That type of thing. Things you need to do. That was at that time of my life. Um, I’ve been real tough on my last job where I went into the prisons, and the jails, and all that kind of thing. So, you do change. But at that time I wasn’t going to be a snitch.
AW: You weren’t there yet. You weren’t there yet.
MM: No, I wasn’t at that point where not, you need to, you need to, you have to do something, you have to let people know what they’re doing is not going to help them. Um, you tell, you let them know. I remember one time I did self divorces. This…
Aanyway, let me back up just a bit. So, but then I got… There was Title 20 money in those days, and David and Margaret, we wrote a…and I believe maybe Diane Wagner (who was a Diane Herbert in those days). She also was a lot in the beginning - one of the women that helped start all this. And um we wrote a grant for Title 20 money. And we got it. And it was for a Services Advocate. In those days, P.A.C. had the Confidence Clinic, Sunshine House, and Head Start, were the only three programs. Think of it now, when you think of UCAN. But that was the only three programs we had. And so, instead of Larry, or CSD doing all the outreach work, I did it for the three programs. And then after that, I came into the clinic. I think I did that [ advocate] for a year, maybe two. And then I went into the clinic and started as an aide, and then the coordinator, and then the director when Margaret left.
...
And then, well, and from director of the Confidence Clinic I went to assistant director, they had in those day, P.A.C., which became UCAN, while I was there. And I can remember Martha and I, and probably Diane and Margaret, sitting upstairs at the clinic, in the room, in the upstairs room, and trying to think of what to call the new CAP, which we became. And that’s how we came up with Umpqua Community Action Network, UCAN, up in that little room.
AW: Which has such a positive sound, UCAN, it’s perfect.
...
So, you’ve, you’ve partly addressed another question that I’ve asked, but you may have more to say about it, which is what impact has the Confidence Clinic had on your life personally?
MM: Yeah. Well, as I said, I believe it saved my life. If not physically, how do you say it, emotionally, mentally, being alive, not just being this horrible, fearful person. I mean if that man hadn’t come back to my house over and over again. So, there it shows you the people, uh he just wouldn’t give up.
And then if the clinic hadn’t, if the clinic wasn’t what it was, I mean, if it was, if I had gone somewhere where they judged you, or looked at you funny, or nobody had experienced. These people that run this program have been through the things that I had been through. You know, except a lot worse, many of them. Um, what I had been through was nothing compared to some of the others. So, like someone said once, “Well, wasn’t it depressing?” Well, I don’t even know why they said that, or who it was, but I thought, “Heavens no, it wasn’t depressing.” (They’re saying because of all the troubled things that had happened to these people.) Because you were there with your own. You were there with people that had dealt this, no matter how wonderful people are that have never experienced something, even some of the folks that helped in the beginning. It’s having people there that actually went through what you’ve been through. And it’s just uh saves your life.
AW: And they’re there in that wonderful place where they’re learning new things and they’re growing and it didn’t stop them, yeah.
MM: Exactly. And so first you have to. First you have to get rid of some of your fears in order to be able to go on. And I didn’t have a choice. I mean, of course you have a choice, you can say no. But these people were so powerful when they said you’re going to go to this meeting with me. And I said, “No, I’m not.” Well, I ended up going, I don’t even know why to this day - because something was important to me. They would say, “Do you want the program to continue?” “Do you want the program to continue? We need to let this community know what we’re all about.” I remember being on one board, District 6 Manpower, as a matter of fact, when it first started. And Jack Ledbetter, I don’t know official name, but anyway…
AW: It’s okay.
MM: Years ago, years ago, yeah, I don’t know, but said that uh, what did he call us, a place of, he didn’t call us a whorehouse, but something.
AW: Ill repute?
MM: A place of no repute, is what it was, I’m sure was his word. Did I come out of my chair? You better believe it. You better believe it. It’s interesting. Uh, they didn’t, they realized we weren’t a house of ill repute by the time I got done talking.
Another thing is when I was going to college, when I got out of the clinic, first I went to college for the law enforcement, uh I was in a class, where not only was I maybe one of the only women, there may have been four women to a big class of men in law enforcement, at that time. I was also on welfare. And so one of the things that they were saying that so much crime was, abuse to children were caused by women on, women on welfare. And of course that was another thing that I really talked about.
I mean, come on, women on welfare? You know, so much abuse, as we know today, is from doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor, whatever. And in my case, and the people that I know, their children is what let women on welfare continue. And some women want to get off welfare. I mean there’s the other, as you know, you get three generations of welfare. But that’s because they don’t know any better. So you have to let these women know.
AW: That there are other options.
MM: ...That there’s other options for them. They don’t know there’s other options. They don’t know it. They don’t know they can get away from a bad relationship. They don’t know that they’re beautiful. They don’t know any of those things I’ve talked about. That’s what the Confidence Clinic lets them know, and has never quit doing that, because I’ve been involved forever. It has never quit doing that. And if we’ve ever had a director that clinic wasn’t their heart, they didn’t last very long.
AW: Uh-huh.
MM: And there was very few of those, very few, that didn’t do it for years.
...
I remember Marge Bladorn. I’ll never forget, I don’t know where we were, Marge will remember where we were. Somewhere that she was speaking, and truly I can’t remember, but she was speaking, and somebody in the audience, or something, asked her where she had her degree from. And maybe you’ve heard this story, but I’ll never forget it as long as I live. And she said, “The U of L.” And they said, “Where is that?” And she said, “The University of Life.”
Maybe that answers your question. I mean, that was just amazing. I use that many times when I’m talking to children, or kids, or whatever. It doesn’t mean that somebody with a degree isn’t wonderful. Of course, in those days, you didn’t have to have a degree to work at CSD, welfare office, any of those. You know, you really didn’t. Or if you had a degree, it could be in business, and you were working in social services. It didn’t matter.
Today is a whole different story. Today even our programs you have to have a degree. I don’t, because I’m always grandfathered in because I have so many years of experience. But, um, but you do, like our Head Start staff now, has to have degrees.
